tony sleep photography

I too have had similar problems with eCostsoftware as Thierry, and I too, like others here, have also had the same CS3 counterfeit problems on eBay, though luckily the eBay Seller gave me an instant refund on my £150.

In fact it was my initial problems with eBay that drove me to look for a legitimate, yet cheaper source of Adobe software than Adobe's on-line shop. That's how I found eCostSoftware.

I took the precaution of contacting Adobe first before I ordered to verify them as a valid Adobe Software source, they informed me several times that they are a legitimate Adobe reseller and that I wouldn't have problems (and still claim to this day that I won't have any problems).

I've been watching their site like a hawk, and I know they don't have any of the Adobe product I want because they told me ! Yet their website's product availability counter went UP from a NON-ZERO number to an even higher one (when they didn't have any product to start with and didn't get any more in). When I questioned them about this, they said that they are going to take that webpage off (why not just fix the quantities ?)

Yet that didn't stop them taking A LARGE SUM OF MONEY from my account (despite me cancelling my order AND them confirming with me that the order had been cancelled). Not surprising that I have reported them to the Trading Standards and my Bank (and am still trying to get my money back).

Yes, it has only been a week - so it's early days maybe to start complaining at full force.

BUT I have NEVER EVER seen a company EVER take money BEFORE they even have any product.

Anon.

Okay.. I purchased a Photoshop CS3 for $80 and the very same day that I purchased it, I read this article.. so I wrote to the seller, explained my concerns and asked her if she could double check the serial number with Adobe before shipping it.. turns out, it was pirated.

 The seller was extremely apologetic, and having purchased the CS3 from ebay to resell, assured me that she had no idea that it was fake.. the payment was refunded, transaction cancelled, and I breathed a sigh of relief.

Thanks for the heads up! Now, I'm only considering purchasing a PS from a seller who has personally registered the software and is willing to transfer the license.. and I'm definitely checking with Adobe first!

There are reasons why legitimate PS won't activate, eg I believe Adobe's activation method writes on sector 0 of your hard disk. Some security software will regard this as nefarious (it is - Google 'Root kit') and will prevent it, as it's the sort of thing that would only be done by malware.

Regards, Tony Sleep

Hi,

I had a problem with photoshop CS2 activation. I went through the installation and updates and it registered OK. When I came to run the program it proceeded to start up but a message came up saying that there was a problem with activation and to restart the computer and reinstall the software. I went through tyhe whole procedure again with the same results. I then uninstalled the program and installed it on a different computer and it activated with out problems. The original computer had a lot of software a 1920x1200 graphics card and Internet security software. To date I have not been able to determine why it is OK on one computer and not the other.

Hi Thierry,

Report your issue to your VISA card issuer. You will get your money back, and the seller wil get a chargeback of around £40 and a black mark.

It may also be worth talking to the local Trading Standards dept. of Richmond Council, because if eCostsoftware make a habit of this sort of thing they will be known.

Regards, Tony Sleep

I purchased Adobe acrobat pro9 from the online shop eCostsoftware, 20 days ago, my visa card was debited immediately and but still no news of the delivery. Sending emails or catching them over the phone or chatting-online seems to be useless.

I strongly recommand to avoid this site  which will cost your purse

ecostsoftware eCost Software 16 - 18 London Road Twickenham Middlesex TW1 3RR

I agree with Tony's comments " I'd be interested to know what they say, especially if they say something like 'the only way we can guarantee authentic software is if you buy direct from Adobe online shop'.

thierry

an up and coming contender www.ebid.tv appears to be flush with counterfeit copies of CS2 - I've just been silly enought to have gone and bought one, thinking out of date software might be going cheap. I didn't even need to open the shrink wrap to tell, it has "designed for windews xp" (their typo not mine) on the side - considering this artwork would be provided by M$ is should be spelt correctly. The intel logos next to it are of a poor quality too.

Hi Tony, I'm another person who bought a fake CS2 on Ebay Uk. I had previously bought and successfully registered Acrobat 7 and InDesign 2 boxed with serial numbers that worked, activated and updated, so I felt confident with this. In fact, it worked first time - with the screwed up keyboard commands, but I attributed that to the fact that I was using it on a Mac with Parallels. The problems only started on re-installing the software: it wouldn't activate. I have contacted the seller, and while not holding my breath will be interested to see what he says. The version I bought was on DVD sealed, but there are minor differences from the two legit versions: - the serial number sticker is slightly larger and is on thicker, flat paper - the font of the serial number is slightly different - the font size of the serial number is slightly larger. Otherwise the jewel case is identical, and the sheets in the case are identical. It looks - as has been suggested above - that it has been printed from the original file but on a different offset printer. It says made in Singapore on the CD as others have reported. What I'd like to know, is why when you go to the Adobe site and test the serial number, it gives a non-committal response, rather than simply saying "fraudulent copy" and allowing you to report it! It's just bonkers. Why make it so hard to help them? Cheers, M.

I've just googled cs2 and found your page - had it my mind to look on ebay for a copy - thanks for the info as it's now made me think twice.

hi, thank you very much for an article. I have absolute same problem, and after read this article I realize My copy is pirate. :( ... My good friend from USA bought adobe photoshop cs2 for me for 245$ from eBay and I am sure she didn't really know the seller sell pirate software. The box was nice, same great manual, two CD but activation didn't work. So I will talk with her ASAP and find some solution for this. but because I use this software for 4 months I don't think she will get her money back. :( So I will have to buy Photoshop again, but this time I will be more careful. (sorry for my bad English, I'm from Czech Republic)

Times Online reports " EBay, the online auctioneer, is likely to face a barrage of lawsuits after it was ordered yesterday to pay €40 million (£31.5 million) in damages to LVMH, the French luxury goods group, for selling fake handbags, perfumes and haute couture.

The Paris Commercial Court said that eBay had committed “serious faults” through its failure to keep counterfeit goods off its site."

I wonder if Adobe's lawyers will now be joining the queue?

Regards, Tony Sleep

Hi, I sell software on ebay and rest assured every item I sell is 100% genuine and for retail in the UK. I've come across quite a few of the fakes and they are all over ebay... although it looks like they are being sold by quite a few different sellers, I'm not sure if that is the case as the listing styles are all remarkably similar and it seems that as one seller disappears, never to be seen again, another one immediately takes their place! They are very good fakes it has to be said but there are a number of ways that they can be spotted... I don't have one in front of me to check but the type face used on the 'Adobe Photoshop CS2' on the front of the box is definitely not right - I think it's a different font and the weight and color is definitely different - it's bolder and darker. There are general problems with the color matching and the inks used but the easiest way to tell it's a fake before opening it is to look at the Adobe logos - if they look anything but a perfect red then it's fake... all of the ones I've come across are a weaker red and slightly orange in color. The label on the bottom showing the part number etc is a good indicator as well - if the ink is thick and very black it's most likely fake or from the USA. The film used to wrap the manual is very thin and flimsy on the fakes... will most likely rip if you rub it for a second or two! The CD cases on the UK retail version has the Adobe logo on the black spine and also says something like '2 discs' or '2 CD' which the fakes don't. Also... and this is a biggy! The feather on the front of the CD case on an authentic version will run vertically and on the fakes they all run horizontally! ...that's all I can remember off the top of my head but hope it helps someone! Don't be put off buying software on ebay - just make sure to ask questions first and if you do buy anything buy it through PayPal using your credit card... that way if you buy a fake item you can just call your credit card company who will give you your money back and who will also investigate the trader! As far as I know there aren't any fake Photoshop CS3s, as yet, on ebay - the thing to avoid is buying one which isn't supposed to be used in this country... most being sold on there are from the USA. The way to check before buying is to ask the seller to look on the bottom of the box and let you know where it says it was printed... only buy the ones which say 'printed in Ireland' because that is the UK retail version. Then ask them for the Manufacturing Part Number and search by that on Google within the UK - that way you know exactly what you're getting!

I can't make any comment on eCost software except to say that if they're authorised Adobe dealers you should be OK. Otherwiise I would avoiid. Best I can suggest is that you contact Adobe Uk and ask them if product sold by

eCost Software
16 - 18 London Road
Twickenham
Middlesex
TW1 3RR

is legitimate or not.

I'd be interested to know what they say, especially if they say something like 'the only way we can guarantee authentic software is if you buy direct from Adobe online shop'.

Regards, Tony Sleep

Hi Tony, I think I'm a bit late on this posting, though with all this talk on Adobe pirated software bought directly on ebay, what about resellers? I'm interested in purchasing the Adobe CS3 Design Premium and after I've read through these articles there is no way I will be buying this on ebay. I've searched around and have come across a range of pricing, from 1100gbp-1600, now what? All these companies reselling these products appear to be legitimate with many positive reviews but I can't believe that adobe distribution channel in the UK would allow for such a discrepancy, 500 gbp?? something's fishy here also. I'm considering buying from this company as they have one of the cheaper prices out there but too cheap to be true, can anyone give me their opinion as to whether I should buy?? www.ecostsoftware.com http://www.ecostsoftware.com/uk/shop/pc/viewPrd.asp?pid=3251 Thanks Kev

Good article, I found that a lot of those same sellers on eBay, also are selling high quality counterfeits of Windows 2003 Server Standard Edition. These also come in a seal box with all the original materials. The difference comes with the quality of the hologram on the cd, which is actually painted and protected with a thin clear film (youll have to compare with a genuine disk to notice the difference). Also when you install the server, it installs as an Enterprise Server (doesn't request activation), instead of a Standard Server. Also, the port holes on the COA are not "cut" as on a genuine COA, and if you look at the back of the COA, you can tell that the security strip its not placed as it suppose to be. So far, I have found 30 different sellers selling these items, 11, accounts have been closed, (6 different accounts from the same 2 counties in Ohio) I have written more information and posted pictures on an the following ebay guide. http://reviews.ebay.com/Counterfeit-Windows-2003-Standard-Licenses_W0QQugidZ10000000005938184

According to a survey at http://blog.epicedits.com/2008/03/28/60-of-photoshop-users-are-pirates/ 60% of Photoshop users are pirates. I wonder if that includes users of counterfeit copies too. Either way, it doesn't seem to be a vote of confidence in activation and high-priicing.

Regards, Tony Sleep

Yes, it's true, there have been a number of typos reported with counterfeits, especially on the CD printing. However the copy I bought had none that I could find. So absence of errors doesn't seem a reliable indicator of authenticity, even though the presence of errors is a good clue to fakes.

Regards, Tony Sleep

To confirm that you have a counterfiet copy look at the small print on the disks you have received. Mistakes can be found. On a copy I have seen, the text reads countries,Adobe ie. there is no space between countries and Adobe. Also there is text reading aregistered.... ie. no space between a and registered. If you have a copy of the Total Trainin Video Workshop, they have spelt TOTAL wrong in one place (TEOTAL) A genuine Adobe product would never have these errors.

Thank you for this article. I was about to purchase a cheap copy of cs2 from a vender on Amazon.com. I still had my suspicians, so I did research, and found your blog. It's saved me from a lot of misery.

Thanks indeed for this very good article. I was about to buy a similar CS2 product from US eBay. For all the exact same reasons as you did - an upgrade form an aging Photoshop 6 edition.... Much appreciate your time and effort. I want Photoshop to be cheaper - but really don't want a counterfeit copy. The economics of counterfeiting are: if it is too expensive, counterfeiting is economically viable and unstoppable. The idiots at Adobe need to learn a lesson.

I'm aware of The Gimp (and GPL - this site is based on Drupal and Menalto Gallery2 and I use Firefox and Thunderbird - and I have tried Gimp in the past. What it most badly lacked then was colour management and layers. It may have grown more useful since. Gimpshop may someday be an alternative and Pixel looks promising too. The latter at least features colour management without which no image editing software can be taken seriously.

Regards, Tony Sleep

Tony, It would be worth trying GIMP - it is FREE and works across platforms. As Adobe beomes more and more protective it behoves people to start looking more seriously at open source software. Firefox for one. I have been using Photoshop since Photoshop CS2 and continue out of habit. I see no point in going beyond CS2. If I was to get really serious I would want to switch to a program like GIMP. It isn't quite Photoshop, but dollars to peanuts, with a little bit of experimenting you can make it do everything you want. Also there is a big community of geeks that listen to suggestions. That is how it is built. David

Amazon itself should be OK, but beware of Amazon marketplace sellers, known counterfeit copies have been purchased from several.

As for buying a US copy and activating in UK, this thread at PhotoNet alleges "The main US distributors for Adobe (e.g. Ingram, Amazon) seem to have agreed not to sell Adobe products to export customers. The only way Europeans can purchase at US prices is by visiting the USA and buying from a store.". Also that it's impossible to buy from Adobe's US download store, you get redirected to the UK server for a reaming.

Can anyone see any real difference between 'we will rob you because we can' when Adobe do it, as opposed to when pirates and counterfeiters do it?

Regards, Tony Sleep

Reading the above I think maybe it's not worth the risk buying my Adobe software from eBay, no matter how genuine it sounds. Still don't want to be ripped off buying in the UK so has anyone ever had any problems with installation or support buying from so called legitimate sites in the US like amazon.com or others? It's still cheaper even with VAT and import charges.

Hi Tony, I was just reading about the Adobe issue again on you page when I saw Peter Murphy mentioned in one of your entries, about Apex Design Media software (2007-11-20). Interestingly that is the name that comes up in the whois archives regarding reynard-software: http://www.whois.ws/domain_archive-com/reynard-software.com/ I thought I`d heard the name before. I don`t know what came of Reynard but I did get my money back through WorldPay, also I got a letter from Adobe that I could use in court if required stating that I had been supplied with pirate software, also they sent me a few anti-piracy goodies in the form of playing cards (absolutely brilliant too!), a clock and a digital keyring which I can`t figure out ;-) I kept the CS3 book too. Cheers.

I would be extremely suspicious of 'Made in Singapore' copies sold in EC and US markets. Adobe does have a legitimate manufacturing partner in Singapore, but as far as I know this services Asian markets only. Possibly it does make English language versions for Australia/NZ. But as far as I know all Singapore products turning up in EC and USA have been counterfeit.

This quite likely applies to all Adobe products, not just PS.

I can only refer you to Adobe's own advice, that the only way to be sure of buying a non-counterfeit Adobe product is to buy from an authorised dealer. Since nobody knows who they are because they are not listed anywhere, this means the only safe source is Adobe themselves at full SRP. I am rather amazed Adobe's 'authorised dealers' - assuming it has some somewhere - are not pissed about this.

Regards, Tony Sleep

Hi, I saw someone selling Adobe Creative Suite CS3 design premium which was made in Singapore on eBay. I was wondering all adobe stuff made in Singapore is fake. I heard many times that product (especially Adobe software) in Singapore's "the disk" is not refined,but they are exactly same as sold in USA.But,It states made in Singapore.If I would like to use Adobe in USA,the item on ebay US could be the fake? Please tell me if you know anything. Thank you, Sue

I tried twice to buy Photoshop CS2 at a reasonable price. On eBay the offer promised that the versions had been bought direct from Amazon. It gave me the same result as TS described, except that the activation was not disabled. It would not work or register (which it tried to do automatically). I got my money back from the seller but there was a lot of unpleasantness between him and me, because I did not give him a good rating for the transaction! On Amazon Market Place I tried again, same result except the seller was very pleasant and apologetic and concerned. Adobe gave me the same email re invalidity as TS received in both instances. I am disappointed by eBay for not taking my complaint seriously enough. I think the seller should have been banned at least. Adobe are to blame to some extent, I think, for charging European customers about twice the price they charge US customers. There is no justification for this blatant unfairness. I suspect my versions were US versions which would not activate from a PC which is in the UK and which is using a UK ISP, and I was quite open about the fact that I was in the UK.

Hi, it might be a bit late, but I'd like to mention that I had a similar problem with CS1(!) Premium, bought at ebay.de. It was sold as an american version, cost me >800,-€ a couple of years ago - seemed to be correct pricing for an _am_ version (cheaper there as you mentioned). It says "Printed/Produced in the USA" on manual, CDs etc. (everywhere), and – I can tell for sure - it's a very good offset litho printed box, manual etc., the CDs having bar-codes a.s.o., no shift in colours or anything. Activation went fine, but then … About one and 1/2 year after first (incomplete) install I tried to install GoLive for the first time - impossible. Called Adobe Customer "Service" - just to be told I'd bought an illicit copy and it was my fault not to buy at a certified vendor. No comment on my question about the correct activation. And no chance to get my money back. Why I'm posting this still that late is: the problem obviously occured much earlier than CS2, and I never believed in this simple "chinese high tech piracy" theory. Or still, if it's the case, Adobe behaves in an unacceptable way towards their customers, treating them like thiefs (that's what I felt during the phone call with the "service") instead of tracking down the pirates. If it's big China, _there_ might be the reason for Adobe's (silent) behaviour: it's a huge market of the future, so nothing ever happens - be it Adobe or any given government … Nonetheless I strongly disagree to obey this "Buy from us or be considered a software pirate"-thing. Adoby pirates my harddisks / MBRs as a matter of fact - _not_ saying so on the CDs or manuals. It has cost me (and many others, for sure) days to rebuild my whole system after a messed up Adobe install - who pays for this waste of our life-time? - they give a damn, just writing "If this and that fails, do a fresh windows installation" and "don't use RAID" in their bloody knowledge base! What sort of policy is that?! (Sorry for getting emotional ;-) I really wait for the day to replace all Adobe software by open source stuff - being also able to finally switch to Linux then … And as discussed in Ed Foster's Blog, I now fully understand everyone who buys a legit copy, but uses something else for time-saving and mental health reasons … This software activation policy is not only for "keeping the sheep on the line" (or how someone expressed it), but for tracking users in every possible extent and way – known as data mining … Best thing to avoid it: use a highly customizable firewall or, if possible, use Adobe software just on machines not connected to the internet at all.

No, the software has been cracked so it does not activate, and keyboard shortcuts do not work, so the CD's are not original Adobe product.

It is possible Adobe's original postscript files have been stolen and used to make the copies on some other press. That could account for the minor differences in printing (moire, spot colour red is pinkish etc.)and seems more likely than someone recreating all the artwork by copying, but I'm just speculating here. Adobe surely knows, but aren't saying.

Regards, Tony Sleep

I suspect this're geniune adobe product that are being stolen during transit or in the warehouse. That's the reason adobe not taking any actions?

Phil said

'After a few replies somebody asked me to post a link to the Ebay items. Well I went back to the site and all the fake copies had been pulled. The two main descriptive items that I can see that differentiate between the fake and the real items on ebay listings are that the scammers do not list item as UK retail'

This is not unfortunately correct. Go to ebay.co.uk and use this link to do a search on 'photoshop (CS2,,CS3) retail

As of today, and every other time I've done it over the past 6 months, there is at least a page of results. All are reliably fake except possibly occasional Mac retail packages at near SRP.

Work it out: an average 20 copies selling every 10 days at an average of about £140 each. In a year that's approximately £100,000. eBay and Paypal are profiting nicely from this criminal enterprise, and Adobe has shown no inclination to act through the VeRO programme which exists to provide an instant means of taking down counterfeiits. It appears to suit all of them to let this fraud run. It stinks.

Regards, Tony Sleep

Hi Tony, Like you and the other people here I was annoyed at the discrepancy between UK pricing and US pricing for Photoshop CS3, which is not far off £ for $. I looked at ebay and was amazed at the prices and also very suspicious of the dealers. I posted a comment to this effect on DPreview asking if people knew if these copies were fakes. After a few replies somebody asked me to post a link to the Ebay items. Well I went back to the site and all the fake copies had been pulled. The two main descriptive items that I can see that differentiate between the fake and the real items on ebay listings are that the scammers do not list item as UK retail, they also have the nerve to add goods cannot be returned if the discs have been removed from packaging due to software piracy.

I am absolutely sure that Adobe is aware of the scale of the problem, they would have to be sub moronic not to have a record of failed activations, and there must be masses of people contacting them to ask about these copies. I would not be surprised if what we are witnessing is pure corporate greed where they realize that there is a huge problem, but that if they get their software protection sorted for CS4 then the unfortunates who bought the fakes will not be able to upgrade, and they will still get their profit albeit delayed by one product release.

My guide to buying expensive software: If the product is new, it should only be sold by a genuine VAT registered company with proper address and business telephone number. If it is used, there should be an original receipt/invoice from a proper registered company. Where does this leave us the genuine customer who wants to play by the board and being ripped off from both scammers and the software vendor? I read an article where it explained how it is possible to register email address in the USA, download and register CS3 using US email address (you have to get US ZIP code) and as far as Adobe are concerned you are a US customer. You get all products and upgrades at US prices though support will be at US time zones. As far as I am aware this is totally legal though inconvenient. It would be much better if Adobe woke up to the fact that we live in a global interconnected world and people do not like being ripped off. This problem is entirely of their own making. They cite additional cost of UK distribution etc. Okay Adobe give us the choice of buying from USA with USA support. That should cost around $15 dollars postage plus VAT, which of course business users can claim back. I couldn't care less if they close UK division if it is costing double for the privilege of having one.

There's no sign of any interest nor action from anybody, except that the seller I bought from - braddock369 - seems not to be on eNay anymore. He's either decided £7k (estimated, from about 55 sales) was enough, or been carted away by the police I guess.

Just in case anyone anywhere gives a shit, the following eBayers seem to be flogging off amazingly cheap Photoshop CS2 and CS3 retail on a regular basis:

macdaddy5935
amy01572
braddock369
learning110
ukfashiondesigner
mad_valentine
esurge
ianb197
source5000
tmcs1987
hot_spot2008
ramdepi
manual_sct
new.deals.4u
ron071259
pwhiteley1
uniimaging

My apologies to any others who I have missed. I'm sure there are some.

All have positive feedback, so either buyers are not spotting counterfeit software, are choosing to overlook its status in view of the low prices and hassle of getting their money back, or are buying genuine Adobe product. Yeah, right.

But also check out Apex Design Media software for some too-good-to-be-true Adobe bargains. Registered to one Peter Murphy, who has opted to omit his contact details at Nominet's WHOIS service, because he is a non-trading individual. As honest as the product he's selling, then.

Regards, Tony Sleep

As well as the comments here, I have had several email discussions with people who have preferred to contact me privately. Counterfeit CS2 has also been purchased from an Amazon seller. As noted above, this has moire on the packaging and has made in Singapore on the box and the disks and on the back of the manual.

Says this correspondent:

'I have now contacted Adobe and spoke to the counterfeit department; I think I spoke to 
the same guy that was mentioned on your blog. He was less than helpful ending the 
conversation saying "sorry you were robbed" It took a while for him to tell me that it 
was likely to be counterfeit and said that there were a few known cases.  It makes 
you wonder though if someone is prepared to go to this level of detail to copy 
something they're unlikely to have only made a few copies.
I have contacted the Amazon seller who has immediately refunded me my money 
(I only received the software today and have not sent it back yet) this suggests 
the seller doesn't want any trouble, perhaps a genuine mistake, perhaps he 
thought I wouldn't notice.'

I would estimate there are at least mid-hundreds of copies of fake CS2 that have been sold in UK alone. There are 22 on sale right now on eBay.co.uk. The seller I purchased from has to date sold 42 copies of CS2 through eBay. Just 2 are known to be fakes but the probability is that they all are, and he has 5 more on sale right now. That's about £5,000 worth of fraud in 6 weeks. Why on earth is nobody interested in doing anything?

Three weeks ago Adobe UK collected my software in order to open a case against the seller and his supplier. Through eBay's VeRO programme they are able to stop this trade immediately - that is what VeRO exists for - but clearly haven't. In fact, one victim was advised to take it up with eBay himself.

Meanwhile people are being publically robbed, eBay and Paypal are profiting from fees, and Adobe's attitude appears to be 'well that'll teach you to buy direct from us, as it's the only way you can be sure of purchasing legitimate product'.

Nor have Adobe shown any sign of acting against Reynard Software, who allegedly supplied not a counterfeit but a DVD collection of all of Adobe's software complete with keygens, to someone who believed he was buying boxed, new CS3 as shown on their shiny website.

In fact it looks like pirates can proceed with utter impunity, and Adobe's only strategy for dealing with this whole mess is to require honest customers to pay full retail price and jump through activation hoops.

@Doug, yes I am aware of the Gimp, I have used it in the past - and there is also a re-skinned version called Gimpshop, which attempts to be a bit more Photoshop-like in its user interface. But it still has a long way to go, and for serious use is fatally flawed by the lack of colour management.

There are alternatives at various stages of immaturity, with Pixel looking promising. That is cross-platform (XP, OSX, Linux) and handles colour management, but so far is a rather buggy beta. It is extremely impressive for a one-man development, and hopefully will continue to improve.

There is also Picture Window Pro from Digital Light & Colour which has been around a good few years now. It's very good - it handled full 16bit/ch working long before PS did, and had a chromatic aberration filter first - but lacks some crucial stuff like layers.

And of course Adobe's own Elements and Lightroom do enough for some people to avoid Photoshop.

Regards,

Tony Sleep

Hi Tony,

I think your wishes have come true. There's a fairly mature GNU piece of software - GIMP at http://www.gimp.org/

I've been using this applicationfor some time and while not a pro photographer, its capabilities certainly exceed my needs. For converting RAW images to TIFF, there's dcraw (http://cybercom.net/~dcoffin/dcraw/)

Cheers,
Doug

Hi Tony, followed your link from the Photoshop forums. I'm another UK dupe here. Some speculation I was just pursuing in my own head was that if those of us who are able are burned by this and turn to Adobe for genuine software they're not actually that 'hurt' by this episode at all? It's also occurred to me that Adobe have contributed to this whole mess by forcing online activation and registration onto us. If my software had not activated and registered successfully the moment I installed it I would have been able to get my money back from the seller by returning the product or at the very least I could have claimed from Paypal. If I wasn't a keyboard shortcut user I may still be using the software totally unaware there was a problem. I'm sure there are many out there who still don't realise.

Well, I just also got stung by a PS CS3 from Ebay UK, which was exactly like you guys described - sealed & boxed, seemingly retail, with 'Made in USA' sticker on the box, but 'Made in Singapore' printed in various places, activation missing (including the options that are supposed to be in the Help menu) and registration never sticking/arriving at Adobe.  It also turns out the discs are low quality, mine already had trouble being detected in my drive the third time (I saw the same problem mentioned in another seller's feedback).  There are plenty of these on Ebay at the moment - the resellers don't mention that they're US copies (mine didn't), but they all look the same.

But here's the twist, the packaging & contents were for the plain version of PS CS3 - but after you install it, guess what, it's actually the Extended version! What a great way to entice people to keep quiet, greed kicks in and you think you got lucky somehow - best not mention that to Adobe eh? Except if you're already suspicious (as I was) and really want a legit license, the alarm bells are ringing by now, so maybe not that smart after all.

Adobe UK told me the serial number was invalid. I also tried it on the official US trial version of Extended - it was accepted (so it was at least stolen from a valid one, or key generated), but activation was denied, claiming the total number of activations (2 I guess) had been exceeded. Luckily I got my money back.

I've never seen anything like this - I totally agree that Adobe pricing and change of upgrade policies are to blame. I was looking forward to Smart Filters etc. but for now I'll stick to my trusty CS2. What I'm really worried about now is some malware payload - a gang capable of producing fakes of this quality may well have access to smart programmers - and genuinely smart malware could do a lot of damage without being easily detected ...

Hello Tony,

I`m the guy mentioned above that bought a pirated CS3 from Reynard Software. My version only came in a clear dvd case with a single sided printed cover, the dvd is a purple dye one with a glossy label attached. On the disc is a whole load of adobe software including Illustrator with a single text file full of serial numbers (about ten full pirated items). Also I got my free book which is the genuine article. It`s my guess that no matter what you buy from Reynard you still get the same disc but thats just speculation. I bought on credit card just in case and they recommended that I send it back to Reynard (as stated on reynards web site). I did, book included which took the postage up to £10 due to weight, and it promptly came back to me after a couple of days with `not here!` written accross the address, notice the exclamation mark. A little surfing reveals that Reynards address is in fact just a forwarding address, but they are a limited company which originally gave me some confidence. to be honest I was expecting to be sent the upgrade version instead when I saw the price but thought it was worth the risk. If you want a scan of the cover of mine please email me.

Please don`t put my name anywhere if you quote me, thanks. Anon.

(NB I have redacted the name of this poster to comply: TS)

I have now had the opportunity to closely compare the counterfeit CD and manual with a legitimate CS2.

• the shade of red used on the counterfeit's Adobe logos are pinkish-red compared to the scarlet of the official product
• image repro is slightly darker/lower gamma in the counterfeit. This applies to both CD cover art and throughout the manual. Where colour repro is involved, colour matching is excellent.
• there are slight traces of moire in halftoned images in the counterfeit. It's not very obvious when viewed alone, but images have a slight grain in the counterfeit. This is a very strong indication of second generation printing via copying rather than original artwork having been used.
• text printing is of similar quality everywhere, with only very minor typeface variations
• the counterfeit manual cover stock is just about identical to the real one. Internal pages have slightly more sheen to the coating. The binding and guillotine work on the counterfeit is slightly superior to the real one.
• as mentioned before, the counterfeited product has 'made in Singapore' where the legitimate UK version has 'made in Ireland'

I think it is safe to say that my previous suspicion that the counterfeit had somehow come off the same lines as Adobe's legitimate product is wrong. This now looks like a very, very good fake copy of a Singapore-made CS2. What differences there are could easily be explained as simply production in a different location, with the sole exception of image halftone quality. The moire is a smoking gun left by copying a screened image.

Without opening the package you will only be able to tell counterfeit product by three attributes:

• the pinkish red of the Adobe logo on the box front when viewed in daylight. This barely shows in artificial light or flourescent.
• the large feather on the front of the box. There are very faint vertical lines, moire and a 'grittiness' to the mauve tip, just to the right of the 'spine' of the feather.
• the box base has 'Printed in Singapore' printed in very small white on black on the left hand side. Ignore the stock label that says 'Made in USA'.

Regards, Tony Sleep

Here is a user who says he has purchased a copy of Photoshop CS3 that Adobe has disallowed as unauthorised. This came from a UK software dealer, Reynard Software who lists a lot of other Adobe software too at astonishingly low prices. How very odd that Adobe were not interested in knowing the dealer's identity. But not if you believe they already know they have a disaster on their hands.

My best guess at this point is that it's pretty unsafe to buy any Adobe software from anywhere except by direct download from Adobe. Yes, of course official dealers will be selling legal software, but how is the buyer to know which dealers are official, and which are not? None of this confusion and fear over authenticity will please their official dealer network one bit. Could that be why Adobe are keeping quiet? Could product be escaping out the back door from Singapore? Have the printing plates illegally emigrated to China? Are they worried about a collapse in confidence that may hurt their share prices? Or is there some other more benign explanation? I think we should be told, because right now people are being robbed and Adobe's silence is helping the robbers.

Regards, Tony Sleep

There is an eBay thread about these here

Regards, Tony Sleep

I think I've got the same counterfeit one as you, thanks for the warning on DPreview. I did the same, checked all the feedback 1st etc. Just contacted the seller about 5 mins ago, will see what he says. Paul

I forgot to mention one other characteristic of counterfeit copies : CD's are printed 'Made in Singapore' (bottom of the label) and the manual has similar on the back cover. This does not automatically mean they are fakes, Adobe apparently has a manufacturing partner in S.E.Asia, Teckwah in Singapore. But most or all legitimate copies in USA and EC have 'Made in USA' or 'Made in Ireland' instead.

The base of the box says 'Made in USA' on the stock label, but 'Printed in Singapore' on the box itself. The Lot Code on mine is 101833; whether this is universal among counterfeit copies I am trying to find out. These are the only external clues that can be seen without opening the shriink-wrap so may be important.

Why no statements from Adobe?

Regards, Tony Sleep

Gordon, I don't know. I have been trying to find out the same thing - whether volume licenses requiire activation at all is the question I asked. I've been unable to find out but I would expect not. Corporates would not stand for the admin and support issues, nor Adobe writing all over the boot sector of their hard drives. Microsoft do not impose activation on corporate licensees for these reasons.

I take it the second copy did not exhibit the messed-up keyboard commands of the counterfeit copies, so was not a fake? If so I agree, your second copy of PS sounds like a corporate copy that has been illicitly sold on. I would expect the licence to be tied to the serial number. Adobe will have no way of knowing employees names, just the number of seats that s/no permits.

Adobe may be handling this like some branded OEM Windows XP. EG if you install Dell OEM XP on a Dell, it doesn't need activating, but on any other machine it does. So Photoshop could just check with the activation server to see whether it needs to do a full activation for the serial number, and if it's a corporate licence and within the licensed number of users it won't bother. In such cases 'Already activated' seems a plausible response.

Regards, Tony Sleep

Hi Tony

I found your input interesting "fake manuals are offset litho, are printed on nice coated stock,,," on the adobe thread and the above blog. I was one of those caught out. The copy was an amazing deception. Mine would not register and keyboard was screwed up. Had money retuned. However, purchased another. Found it 'activated' already. This has to be because it is a volume license. I can get update and register…..All this is possible whilst I have not in anyway contributed to the activation process so this software is ‘activated’ I wonder if i could tap your knowledge: Is this true? Do volume licenses require activation? I would have thought that it could only be used by a member of the company that purchased the volume licence. Can't find any info on volume license activation on Adobe Site (going round and round) so any input appreciated

Thanks Gordon

A long thread in the Adobe User forums hints at the scale of the problem. That thread began in May. Many, many hundreds of copies must have been sold since then. Certainly this US buyer was having problems with counterfeits in June.

When I found out I had a dud serial number, Adobe said they had had 'a few of these'.

Later when I contacted Adobe's anti-piracy department in San Franccisco, they simply asked me to send it to them and get my money back through Paypal, and they would open a case against the seller. But I'd told them there were about 100 copies of dubious provenance on sale on eBay, from many sellers. What was the point in just nailing one, who quite likely had been duped himself?

I thought maybe they didn't understand what I was saying. I told them they could far more easily by their own from eBay and sent them the PDF's attached above and pointed them again at this blog. They just said 'thanks', and when I later sent the PDF of CS3 probable counterfeits at $200 on eBay.com, they didn't respond at all.

Isn't that a bit odd? Wouldn't you expect a few questions? A bit of appreciation for bringing to their attention a scale of forgery which is costing them a great deal of cash? Duped buyers are, after all, people who are trying to buy legitimately, not steal.

From their lack of reaction, they know they have a problem and have probably known a long time. Yes, I'm sure they will be investigating, trying to find the source, but are Adobe not supposed to be ferocious at pursuing piracy? Why is this stuff still on sale?

Through eBay's VERO programme Adobe have the ability to cancel listings immediately. They haven't. Meanwhile people are being fooled and losing money to criminals.

Let's say an average 50 fake copies are selling on eBay every 10 days, and this has been going on since June. That's 600 copies, at an average of $300, $180,000 of illicit business. eBay and Paypal won't mind their commission, of course, but what buyers have bought is worthless dreck of exactly the same status they could have downloaded from the hacker sites for nothing.

If we have a social and moral duty toward Adobe not to use pirated software and to try and help them to stop it, does Adobe not have a reciprocal duty toward us? It looks as if Adobe only cares when it's Adobe who are being ripped off, and until they can solve that, the rest of us are collateral damage.

If that really is the case, then the sooner we see a plausible GPL compettitor challenge to the Photoshop monopoly the better. 800lb goriillas are worth being pals with, but downright dangerous if they get hold of your testicles.

There is another darker possible motive, too. That it was their own artwork that was 'liberated' and used by the counterfeiters. I imagine Adobe would prefer to keep this whole unfortunate episode quiet because iit points to an embarassing carelessness about the intellectual property they expect us to pay so much for. If that happened Adobe themselves would have facilitated a massive ongoing criminal fraud of which buyers now find themselves the victims. To be clear, this is just empty speculation at this stage, but I've arranged with an owner of legitimate CS2 to compare his with my counterfeit copy. I'll be looking very closely and I'll let you know.

Regards, Tony Sleep

(from discussion of this issue on the Prodig list)

It is very hard to see how such quality could be achieved without access to copies of Adobe's original artwork files. There is no hint of second-generation about any of it, and I've looked at all aspects (packaging, CD, labels, manual etc) with a good loupe. I don't (of course:) have a genuine CS2 to hand for direct comparison, so I may be missing subtle colour errors or something. Most likely someone 'liberated' the postscript files, as I cannot believe any counterfeiter is going to do the 410page manual from scratch.

If anyone is reasonably near Ealing, London UK and has a genuine CS2 I would be very interested to get together and compare with the counterfeir. I don't think I'm allowed to place my email address on this list (?) but you'll find it at my website http://tonysleep.co.uk/contact

As far as I can see, the counterfeiters have spotted a great, gaping business opportunity, created entirely by Adobe's pricing, activation and especially upgrade policies. Had they stuck to their previous any-version-later-than-v4 policy, had they maintained bundling of PS with hardware, had they been even slightly generous with upgrade pricing from PSE, this counterfeiting would not have had a worthwhile market. As it stands anyone wanting CS3 will see these CS2 as the smart route to upgrade to CS3 at half the full retail price. Clever counterfeiters have spotted what Adobe have not, that nature abhors a vacuum.

For further proof try going to www.ebay.com and doing a search on 'photoshop cs3 retail'. I count 24 items, including some being sold by eBay shops at suspiciously cheap prices, less than $200 BIN. (NB: I have added a screen grab to the attachments above). Some are for Mac too, not just Windows. How many of those are genuine? Could any be counterfeited by the same route? I wouldn't care to bet $200 on the answer.

My personal reaction to all this is to hope a GPL competitor or even a sanely priced commercial alternative emerges someday. Shaking down your customers usually makes them want to escape.

Regards, Tony Sleep